(05-04-2018, 10:52 AM)Terran Wrote: Its...All interesting, but the problem is power creep. Guns are already pretty brokenly overpowered as they are, there's very little strategy rather than "Spray people down".
I'd say it'd work just fine if they could only be applied to a weapon that isn't godlike or higher AND doesn't have any traits/suffixes?
You do realize that everything isn't power creep right. I like you terran but you can't just shut down any new suggestion and say its power creep. The goal of ttt isn't to construct a base that is going to counter the persons attack. It is simply to murder not construct some elaborate plan to kill one person.
Actually, lad, the power creep is very real. There are many guns already on the server that are powerful to the level of ridiculousness (of which I have one), and the thought of making them even stronger is a humorous proposition. Let's take my Heroic Galil with Bleed, or just a standard Thrakos. Now you suddenly add a bonus power to that, and it becomes even stronger? I already find that Heroic Galil I have to be stupidly strong, to the point I only break it out when I basically want to turn on ragehax mode and just kill everybody.
Another issue is that, once again, a suggestion like this just adds more value to everything primordial or higher. What happened to legendary guns? People only use a very, very few select amount of them, and they're not considered good. Everything is "super op prims" or godlikes, of which are a dime-a-dozen. That's power creep. Of course, it was eventual, but look at the recent Galactic fiasco; - A tier with Lightweight's mobility, Heroic damage/-and the only negative stat being a bit of stability? Power creep. If you also noticed, I didn't exactly "Disagree" with Spiderpig, because I think the suggestions are fine in and of themselves, but their application seems terrible. Maybe we could focus on making lower-tiered guns more interesting to players with interesting utilization's? There have already been multiple good suggestions that people don't like because "they're not high tier enough". Evidently, a gun can't be cool or interesting unless its Primordial or higher.
Now, I'm sure you'll respond to this a la keyboard warrior way, slamming your fist down "GRUG NO LIKE, GRUG SMAAASH", but realize TTT at its core concept is a game where you're supposed to out-wit and out-play, not simply out-power. Considering what TTT was based off of and what it is, anyways. FRG is different; - its a different VEIN of TTT, its not normal TTT. That's a fine thing, too, I have no SERIOUS complaints. (If I did, I wouldn't have played a thousand or more hours in it. Its good as it is, I would hate to, say, see it remove the inventory system), but power creep is along the lines of "Shit just keeps getting better and better and the older shit is no longer interesting".
Ever played an MMO where they have, say, the SUPER COOL +4 STAM +4 STR warrior belt? Now, suddenly 6 years later its a +625 STAM +500 STR +250 AGI 80% chance to double a critical and perform a whirlwind. That's power creep. Of course, that's an EXTREME over-the-line suggestion, AND on regards to this topic, these tomes are NOWHERE near that; - They're all pretty decent little perks if anything, but once again, all these would do is make the bullshit primordials that everybody already USES even MORE used. This is the important part. If you'd notice, I didn't exactly disagree (As I had mentioned before), and evidently Spiderpig planned for them to overwrite a suffix if used on a gun with one, so that's GOOD; our interests already lay together on that.
Feel free to respond however you'd like.
Also, P.S: Rarity of an object is NO excuse for making it ridiculously strong. Nothing should be brokenly powerful because its "Rare". Someone, someones, and many-ones will obtain it eventually, and that's not fun. For ALL of my complaints, though, Brass' vision and execution of FRG still remains great. I've had complaints ALL throughout it, but I've loved playing it and no matter what happened, I'm pretty sure I'd still love playing it. The server and community are great, and I'm not going to go into someone's cool suggestion thread and shit on them (because that's just rude and dumb and I've done it before, hoy hoy hoy), but if my opinion lies that it might not be the greatest, then I'm going to mention that.
Now, I actually feel some of you are probably a bit slow and reading is 2 hrd if nt txt'd, so to sum up the two points that matter:
-Strong guns already become stronger.
-Lowered-tier guns become even more forgotten, the power creep just replaces the old with the new. New stuff shouldn't just be "BETTER". Of course, that has limits.
The suggestion is good, but those two really break it for me. There's more in the actual post, btw.
05-05-2018, 02:47 AM (This post was last modified: 05-05-2018, 02:48 AM by Terran.)
(05-05-2018, 02:39 AM)Brassx Wrote: Power creep is a VERY hard thing to avoid if you want to keep adding items people enjoy and will come back for (if they are away), I've been battling this issue for quite awhile now. TTT ultimately holds us back in what we can do to keep things interesting, and fill niches.
The new 'sought after' weapons would have to be PvE related items that fill specific roles in those situations. Not OP anywhere but there. The OSRS approach of making items only good at certain things. The best at the time at those things so they are still worth going for.
We have tried making lower-tier items cool, whacky, or unique. People just don't give a shit about them.
It's not as easy as just "Make items different, not better". I've tried, and still do try with every item I make.
Yeah, hence I have no complaints about the current system. It really is unavoidable to an extent, and you'd know this a hundred times better than me, but when an opportunity arises that I can post my opinion on something, is something I like doing. It (Changes to FRG) also seem to be partially warped by the community's mindset, not exactly a problem of the server or its systems. I'd love to see that sought-after PvE approach realms when. People value certain tiers and guns for events already, or challenges, which is cool. That works great. p.s buff firewalk when (sorry for re-re-replying in your thread spiderpig, take it as free bumps)
I like these ideas, but Terran makes good points. I agree that power creep is very hard to prevent though. Maybe add a small downside. Such as applying these runes causes a 5-10% decrease in random stats or like a solid 3-5% off all the stats. Something like that just so that it would make the weapon a lot more fun, but there's still a sort of risk to it, so that you're making the gun worse in terms of pure stats, but it has the benefit of a unique bonus.
(05-05-2018, 03:08 AM)Vhoxel Wrote: Or you know.. make it so these tomes can only be applied to legendaries and under. That way, there's an actual reason to invest on lower tier weapons.
I feel like that wouldn't work. I don't think people would really care. And even then it would just improve legendaries, just slightly, and nothing else because nobody is gonna put one on an unlikely or rare when they can just as easily put one on a legendary. Plus it seems like just unnecessarily handicapping primordials for being a higher tier. I agree with not allowing them on godlikes though.
(05-04-2018, 10:10 PM)Poison Wrote: [quote='Terran' pid='62469' dateline='1525431131']
Its...All interesting, but the problem is power creep. Guns are already pretty brokenly overpowered as they are, there's very little strategy rather than "Spray people down".
I'd say it'd work just fine if they could only be applied to a weapon that isn't godlike or higher AND doesn't have any traits/suffixes?
Another issue is that, once again, a suggestion like this just adds more value to everything primordial or higher. What happened to legendary guns? People only use a very, very few select amount of them, and they're not considered good. Everything is "super op prims" or godlikes, of which are a dime-a-dozen. That's power creep. Of course, it was eventual, but look at the recent Galactic fiasco; - A tier with Lightweight's mobility, Heroic damage/-and the only negative stat being a bit of stability? Power creep. If you also noticed, I didn't exactly "Disagree" with Spiderpig, because I think the suggestions are fine in and of themselves, but their application seems terrible. Maybe we could focus on making lower-tiered guns more interesting to players with interesting utilization's? There have already been multiple good suggestions that people don't like because "they're not high tier enough". Evidently, a gun can't be cool or interesting unless its Primordial or higher.
And @Dreadark "I feel like that wouldn't work. I don't think people would really care. And even then it would just improve legendaries, just slightly, and nothing else because nobody is gonna put one on an unlikely or rare when they can just as easily put one on a legendary. Plus it seems like just unnecessarily handicapping primordials for being a higher tier. I agree with not allowing them on godlikes though."
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