06-10-2018, 05:57 AM (This post was last modified: 06-10-2018, 06:36 AM by The Black Parade.)
In the morning (on june 9th), there was a discussion about the game S&box, and what would happen "in the beginning" if Brass starts "FRG2" on S&box. If you dont know what S&ndbox is, its basically Garry's Mod 2, but on the Unreal Engine and C# code. I'm curious to see what you guys would think should be done if this was reality and was actually happening. Of course, S&ndbox is not even close to being done.
So, here are the two options:
Able to transfer Inventory
In this new server, you have the option to transfer your entire inventory from gmod. There would be no risk of losing old FRG players moving to new FRG2, but I'm assuming Brass would have to rewrite a lot of code for the weapons and items and...well almost everything. Also nothing new would be introduced in the beginning besides it's on the unreal engine. Also new players joining the server are at a disadvantage if they cant transfer their inventories because they never played old frg, but that is just the same thing as players joining late into the server while the server been going on for years.
A restart
This is what I would like. A total restart, everything new, the downside of this is old frg players might not play this new server. Why would you want this? Well the "everything new" part. New items, new weapons (I'm sure that a lot of new weapons will be in S&ndbox), a new economy, this will also give everyone a chance at the beginning.
So if you would like to answer the poll go ahead, im just kurious on what people think about this.
06-10-2018, 06:02 AM (This post was last modified: 06-10-2018, 06:13 AM by Bathory (She/They).)
I would rather a cash out feature instead where you could get the value of your inventory obviously scaled down then given as the new economies currency on new frg.
Or a set limit of what value you can get out of your inv here. (ie: 10k coins)
"Closest thing I have had to alcohol is chocolate milk... Don't quote me on that!"
"Please somebody use this as a signature to remember this day."-Catbug
Honestly, none of this would work out well. Like you said, Sandbox isn't near complete, and will probably take time for people to get into coding for that. This means basic TTT isn't available. Once that comes somehow, there's a few decisions that go beyond your post.
There's keeping gmod servers up because people won't want to buy Sandbox until it's reasonably stable or wait for a sale. While this has some neat way of taking advantage like getting new players because the servers they played on aren't live yet, inventory servers will obviously take more time to prepare compared to vanilla.
That means delayed updates for both servers. Also, possible separate economies, different weapons for different games. I don't know if you're paying attention to how many people are playing daily, but it's not that great. I mean actually playing too, like a few hours per person. It isn't wise to split them up.
Currently, we don't know the price, the demand or how easy it will be to do anything on Sandbox. Brass could work hard on getting his server to Sandbox to only have it be a waste of time. It's unpredictable whether or not the game is going to be big.
A lot of the community has become inactive. If it were to switch to Sandbox only, you'd be losing people who just go onto gmod to check their legacy browser for servers they favorited.
As far as our player base now, there will be dozens that quit if they can't keep their stuff. People will also quit because they don't have good enough computers for unreal engine (or run as well as gmod). You know people already own Gmod and will want to continue playing there because there's plenty of TTT and inventory servers.
Your point about the new people and transfering inventories is moot. That's how it works now too. New players still come and feel this. The only exception this time is how quick the server gets to the listing so more people see that instead, so more people have this opinion.
Bathory suggested something that I think is a terrible idea. Cashing out is a terrible idea, as people worked hard getting rarer weapons. How do you feel cheny will feel if he had to give up his one of a kind sand gauntlets. What do you even price these rare weapons at. Bri was going to pay 1 million coins for a bloodfury. I don't know if he was serious or not, but you have to consider that he had the chance to buy it for that much.
If you have to scale it, I have a feeling that a railgun is going to be worth less than what it was a few weeks ago. How else are you suppose to keep a reasonable scaling for cashing out. He rebounded this by setting a cap, but the cap is a terrible idea because my 2,600 hours of collecting rare weapons meant the same as someone who bought a few cheaper godlikes around the 80 hour mark.
But I am also the curious type. I want to see what would happen if this were to happen. Even before I joined, the community already decided the only weapons that mattered were primordials and higher. I want to see if people even care about rarities. I want to see if alex could continue his streaks. I want to see if weapons could be made better. Or the existing ones to feel better.
There are two ways my mind will think about this, and both have their ups and downs, but personally, I think that we should reset inventories if we were to move to S&box.
Why? Well, of course, the even playing fields will welcome new players, and those who are like me, rather unlucky once you consider someone who drops everything... *Cough* ALEX *Cough* But I think that some of the older players would want a chance to drop them all once more. The rather one-sided amount of wealth in FRG is something that turns many people off, it can sometimes make me stop playing as well. I'd like to see everyone climb the ladder once more, and see how everything would unfold. I think it would bring a lot more players around, and a ton more content to fiddle with. I feel like it would give me another chance at wealth as well, and I would love to see it. The other point of view, however, does make a fair argument.
Transfer inventories! Make it easy on everyone, keep wealth the same, yadda-yadda-yadda. The richer people, of course, would be in support of this, for the most part, and I can see why. The hard earned years of building and stacking up these incredible inventories, to lose them all in a reset, and make you the same as the next guy seems like hell! The progress many people have made would be dangerous if we were to remove it. We would lose some people due to the fact that they don't want to invest another few years of their life here, they'd rather just relax, and enjoy their thrones. I can respect it though, those who have the wealth have earned it.
The thing is, it's all or nothing with these choices. You can't keep only some weapons, and outlaw others, there isn't a middle-ground. That's the decision that would have to be made, keep all, or throw out all. But what we also have to think about is the player base that would be thrown into this mix as well. We wouldn't see updates on our beloved Gmod TTT whilst the FRG2 on S&box would be in development. The server wouldn't be attracting too many people without updates as well. What more would there be? Updates are a lot of what keeps us going, some of us stock up for new crates, and prepare for the new influx of wealth, and inflation. Without updates, we'd lose some of our player base, and that makes me think about how it would be if we had both these server running at the same time. It wouldn't work. It would cause a divide in the community, two different games, with different economies, and guns, it wouldn't go well. So if we were to move games, it would change a lot, we would gain many people (if the game were to do well, and we don't know when it will release) and lose a lot as well.
My solution would be to transfer a few things over, and by that, I don't necessarily mean items, I mean like badges and titles. Badges and titles are things that can be really earned, those painstaking months of working towards a single title only to have you restart is something I find quite odd. If we were to have the same weapons, I think that if you have earned a title, you should be able to keep it. Example: Fancy recently achieved the title rifle master, 5000 kills with a rifle, to wipe the slate clean would be agony. Titles that are from !ach are the only ones that you should be able to keep, and since they aren't marketable/tradeable, what's the harm in keeping them? The !time command is something I'd like to see kept as well. I would like to see who is a true FRG veteran, and I peer at it from time to time.
Overall, I don't find this viable at all. We'd have to sacrifice one thing to make another. Who knows if TTT would even be a base game mode in S&box? If it were to all go as planned, we wouldn't be able to keep both servers up, there's too much to handle. So if we had to choose one, we are going to be at a loss in the end. Time is very valuable, and I think that FRG should just stay at Gmod for the time being, and not think too much about the sequel to it until we have a good release date set for it. However, this is all hypothetical, I would love to see everything happen like TJ would, it would be quite interesting.
06-10-2018, 10:29 AM (This post was last modified: 06-10-2018, 10:36 AM by Brassx.)
The thing is, GMOD server's browser is exploited by a lot of the top servers at the moment.
When you open the server browser, the server's ranking is MOSTLY rated by ping. There's a host that manipulates pings to make them lower on the browser, but once you get in game your ping is actually much different, thus always showing up at the top even if their player count isn't full. That's a big reason why gaining new players is becoming more and more difficult. These servers are using these shady practices whether they mean to or not, and smothering smaller communities.
S&box would be a new and fresh start for communities and servers. I almost guarantee TTT will be out very soon post-launch, if not as soon as it's launched. (I could also just make it)
Transferring items will not likely happen. It's a brand new engine, with all new weapons. I would not likely be able to transfer previous weapon models over to unreal engine very easily without remaking them all. It would be a good chance for a fresh start, especially with the competition, after all, sequels don't often keep the same items. It would give me a chance to go in a completely different direction and do new things. If I choose to do nothing, I lose the race to have the first unique content setup on it, and if the game becomes somewhat popular, whoever does these things first and has their server up will have a big advantage/head start. What ever happens, GMOD would stay up obviously. I'm sure I can think of things I could do to reward long-time players/donators though.
Keep in mind, I am much more fluent in C# than I am in LUA, getting a simple Inventory system up shouldn't take me more than a week or two depending on how they have their engine setup and if UI frameworks comes bundled.
All of this is a LONG time away, so don't worry.
I've been developing for GMOD for the past 6 years, and quite frankly I'm pretty burnt out on it, I'm held back SO much by it. A new game/engine would refresh me for sure and I'm sure I can do some really cool stuff, after all(not to brag), I was the first one to do a lot of things on TTT back on NTG and earlier days of FRG, and Innovated TTT Inventory systems(yes pointshop was technically an Inventory system, but I innovated and made a much more complex version with more complicated items that had random stats, trading, loot drops, crates, etc), TTT loot drops, TTT Economies, TTT Minigames, TTT Bossfights, etc. None of those things existed(as far as I know)/were popular before I released my system in early 2013.
Also, keep in mind I still work on my passion project, Voslom:
Just recently I've been doing some shader work on the skies:
I personally would like it if there was some sort of compensation for the donated money, considering how it is ACTUAL money we've poured into the server that will go to waste otherwise during the great migration. Also regarding if you're gonna change how anything works with the system I personally would like it if you kept the system of discovering godlikes intact. It was an incredible feeling being the first person to drop something and have your name on the item as a permanent reminder that you're so much better than Unpoke.
06-10-2018, 12:55 PM (This post was last modified: 06-10-2018, 12:59 PM by Brassx.)
(06-10-2018, 12:34 PM)Nytemart Wrote: I personally would like it if there was some sort of compensation for the donated money, considering how it is ACTUAL money we've poured into the server that will go to waste otherwise during the great migration. Also regarding if you're gonna change how anything works with the system I personally would like it if you kept the system of discovering godlikes intact. It was an incredible feeling being the first person to drop something and have your name on the item as a permanent reminder that you're so much better than Unpoke.
That's the thing though, that money would not go to waste. That money supported FRG, kept us up and running, kept me able to work on FRG. Regardless of where we go in the future, it's never wasted. But I understand your concern, and I would love to do something for the supporters. Keep in mind, FRG is a full time thing for me. The only way that can be a possibility is by donations. Otherwise I would have to go get a full time job elsewhere, and that would really make working on FRG difficult.(Economy update is almost ready by the way , it is by far the toughest update thus far. Tons of behind the scenes changes and additions were needed )
I will say though, donators got the perks they were entitled to upon donation already here, and that's not going anywhere anytime soon. Donating directly supports the server and our updates, and I plan to keep the community around for as long as possible. Even if GMOD dies (and GMOD is already past it's peak). I have had Voslom on the backburner for years, and I love working on it, and I would also love to have a community of players on FRG for it, once it's back up to the point where it's ready.
(06-10-2018, 12:34 PM)Nytemart Wrote: I personally would like it if there was some sort of compensation for the donated money, considering how it is ACTUAL money we've poured into the server that will go to waste otherwise during the great migration. Also regarding if you're gonna change how anything works with the system I personally would like it if you kept the system of discovering godlikes intact. It was an incredible feeling being the first person to drop something and have your name on the item as a permanent reminder that you're so much better than Unpoke.
That's the thing though, that money would not go to waste. That money supported FRG, kept us up and running, kept me able to work on FRG. Regardless of where we go in the future, it's never wasted. But I understand your concern, and I would love to do something for the supporters. Keep in mind, FRG is a full time thing for me. The only way that can be a possibility is by donations. Otherwise I would have to go get a full time job elsewhere, and that would really make working on FRG difficult.(Economy update is almost ready by the way , it is by far the toughest update thus far. Tons of behind the scenes changes and additions were needed )
I will say though, donators got the perks they were entitled to upon donation already here, and that's not going anywhere anytime soon. Donating directly supports the server and our updates, and I plan to keep the community around for as long as possible. Even if GMOD dies (and GMOD is already past it's peak). I have had Voslom on the backburner for years, and I love working on it, and I would also love to have a community of players on FRG for it, once it's back up to the point where it's ready.
Damn that's poetic. Makes me wanna donate more. What an endless loop of giving and taking I'm finding myself in. Guess I'll satisfy myself with the knowledge that my money is going towards something I love. Keep up the good work
I feel like if brass was to make FRG into the new game, it would have to be all new. If this is being developed on unreal engine, what about maps and add-ons? How hard would it be to import maps to the unreal engine compared to source?
This is something that isn't going to happen for a while. I don't think brass will be willing to do all of that at this time being seeing how he's done all this work now with lua then switching it all to C# and forcing more work than is already needed.
All the time grinding in TTT and events gone? I'm sure the new sandbox game would have everyone migrate over to there or just have people quit. So, even if the Gmod TTT were to stay up, it wouldn't be as popular and updates for it would eventually die. That's kind of a major turn off. Especially since the chance to move the inventory from Gmod to S&Box is slim to none. And for the most part, I agree with TJ.
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, it is by far the toughest update thus far. Tons of behind the scenes changes and additions were needed )
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