(04-15-2018, 07:18 PM)Kheyre Wrote: If we are talking about things, I want survive to be approachable for most people, instead of the 6-9+ hour runs, most people cant afford to do that casually. Look at the recent attempt to break the survive record, people got sick and fell asleep trying just to be there as long as teamsweat.
That's the point of survive. You can't compare casual runs vs 6-9 hour runs. Not everyone does 6-9 hour runs. It's literally 'survive'. A Test of endurance.
Most people just go to Round 24 then stop for the loot.
(04-15-2018, 07:18 PM)Kheyre Wrote: If we are talking about things, I want survive to be approachable for most people, instead of the 6-9+ hour runs, most people cant afford to do that casually. Look at the recent attempt to break the survive record, people got sick and fell asleep trying just to be there as long as teamsweat.
That's the point of survive. You can't compare casual runs vs 6-9 hour runs. Not everyone does 6-9 hour runs. It's literally 'survive'. A Test of endurance.
Most people just go to Round 24 then stop for the loot.
You also gotta look at people that play Nazi Zombies, they try to survive for more than 9 hours, I watched a video once about how to keep a multiplayer zombies game up while going to sleep.
(04-15-2018, 07:18 PM)Kheyre Wrote: If we are talking about things, I want survive to be approachable for most people, instead of the 6-9+ hour runs, most people cant afford to do that casually. Look at the recent attempt to break the survive record, people got sick and fell asleep trying just to be there as long as teamsweat.
The only reason I got sick is that I gave blood that same day. That was my mistake. I did it the week previous and was fine. Survive is my favorite event by far and will always be worth it to do in my eyes mostly because of nostalgia.
(04-15-2018, 04:05 PM)Brassx Wrote: That's not a problem, that's how it NEEDS to be. Just balanced more properly than it is currently, so time vs coin is more comparable across all. So doing one isn't more worth doing the other, unless you're chasing specific unique from said event.
But that's where more unique loot would come in. I don't think dropping expired crates is the way to do it, but more unique (not just godlike) items to each event, such as items with event-only traits 'x more damage vs undead, etc'. But things like that are hard to also make it 'worth it'.
Secondly, that's kind of how grinding bosses works. Most of the time you get the same loot, but every now and again you get that rare drop, unique to that boss. That was always my main goal, for people to go after the rares, not really the 'small rewards'.
Nothing you said really changes this fact, though. We introduce said crates, and after awhile of being like this, the event then gets 'old and boring', when you're likely not going to get the godlike from the crates, and the exact same problems as listed occurs(the crates become ordinary). It's a temporary fix, as is pretty much any loot re-balance to these. Not that I am completely against this or anything, just saying your solution isn't really a solid fix for this issue. (Not sure how many MMO's you've played, but grinding bosses/dungeons in mmos have this same exact issue. It just gets boring after doing it for so long, it's all about chasing those unique drops though, thus why I think we need MORE of them) (As Axe later said in his post above)
To be fair the balance is not the issue it's how homogenized all of the loot is making it unappealing when the only difference in drops is the few extremely rare godlikes.
I really do like the idea of unique weapons but wouldn't that require more effort than making something like crate of the damned return to grim?
One motivation for this type of suggestion was the Lyrus boss fight, it followed this type of formula already but now with its exclusive drop being removed it looks like it will be following the suit of every other event. I think keeping easter egg IIIs as an exclusive reward from Lyrus would make the fight undoubtedly worth doing regardless of how much "value" the drops have. Santa fights are still in the game and we routinely get a ton of people on to do the fights just because of the christmas crates being exclusively available from there.
This should also help with the problem of inflation as many of the filler crates give coins in addition to the coins you already get from completing most events whereas things like Easter Eggs give very little coins. In runescape now most bosses give valuable sub-drops to supplement the main rare drops and a lot of the stuff is divided into different tiers or areas. GWD in RS3 gives a ton of potion secondaries that make up a huge chunk of profit when you don't get any rare drops. GWD2 gives higher tiered herbs and other useful consumables like bones and ashes where the very top tier bosses give items like wines and energies to make armors. Every one of these different instances of events are "worth doing" for a ton of different reasons.
I wouldn't compare FRG directly to MMOs because you really can't grind events here for hours on end, there's still cooldowns and I think that if these changes were passed having events like Grim and Asylum go back to 20 hours wouldn't be a bad idea either to keep things fresh.
(04-15-2018, 07:18 PM)Kheyre Wrote: If we are talking about things, I want survive to be approachable for most people, instead of the 6-9+ hour runs, most people cant afford to do that casually. Look at the recent attempt to break the survive record, people got sick and fell asleep trying just to be there as long as teamsweat.
I didn't include survive in this suggestion for events since it doesn't ever end it would be tough to balance any loot changes without addressing peoples other problems with survive. Considering "peak loot" is round 40+ and getting there is easily 4-5 hours it's fundamentally different from basically every objective event
04-15-2018, 11:58 PM (This post was last modified: 04-16-2018, 12:12 AM by Brassx.)
(04-15-2018, 10:09 PM)Kuro Wrote:
(04-15-2018, 04:05 PM)Brassx Wrote: That's not a problem, that's how it NEEDS to be. Just balanced more properly than it is currently, so time vs coin is more comparable across all. So doing one isn't more worth doing the other, unless you're chasing specific unique from said event.
But that's where more unique loot would come in. I don't think dropping expired crates is the way to do it, but more unique (not just godlike) items to each event, such as items with event-only traits 'x more damage vs undead, etc'. But things like that are hard to also make it 'worth it'.
Secondly, that's kind of how grinding bosses works. Most of the time you get the same loot, but every now and again you get that rare drop, unique to that boss. That was always my main goal, for people to go after the rares, not really the 'small rewards'.
Nothing you said really changes this fact, though. We introduce said crates, and after awhile of being like this, the event then gets 'old and boring', when you're likely not going to get the godlike from the crates, and the exact same problems as listed occurs(the crates become ordinary). It's a temporary fix, as is pretty much any loot re-balance to these. Not that I am completely against this or anything, just saying your solution isn't really a solid fix for this issue. (Not sure how many MMO's you've played, but grinding bosses/dungeons in mmos have this same exact issue. It just gets boring after doing it for so long, it's all about chasing those unique drops though, thus why I think we need MORE of them) (As Axe later said in his post above)
To be fair the balance is not the issue it's how homogenized all of the loot is making it unappealing when the only difference in drops is the few extremely rare godlikes.
I really do like the idea of unique weapons but wouldn't that require more effort than making something like crate of the damned return to grim?
One motivation for this type of suggestion was the Lyrus boss fight, it followed this type of formula already but now with its exclusive drop being removed it looks like it will be following the suit of every other event. I think keeping easter egg IIIs as an exclusive reward from Lyrus would make the fight undoubtedly worth doing regardless of how much "value" the drops have. Santa fights are still in the game and we routinely get a ton of people on to do the fights just because of the christmas crates being exclusively available from there.
This should also help with the problem of inflation as many of the filler crates give coins in addition to the coins you already get from completing most events whereas things like Easter Eggs give very little coins. In runescape now most bosses give valuable sub-drops to supplement the main rare drops and a lot of the stuff is divided into different tiers or areas. GWD in RS3 gives a ton of potion secondaries that make up a huge chunk of profit when you don't get any rare drops. GWD2 gives higher tiered herbs and other useful consumables like bones and ashes where the very top tier bosses give items like wines and energies to make armors. Every one of these different instances of events are "worth doing" for a ton of different reasons.
I wouldn't compare FRG directly to MMOs because you really can't grind events here for hours on end, there's still cooldowns and I think that if these changes were passed having events like Grim and Asylum go back to 20 hours wouldn't be a bad idea either to keep things fresh.
(04-15-2018, 07:18 PM)Kheyre Wrote: If we are talking about things, I want survive to be approachable for most people, instead of the 6-9+ hour runs, most people cant afford to do that casually. Look at the recent attempt to break the survive record, people got sick and fell asleep trying just to be there as long as teamsweat.
I didn't include survive in this suggestion for events since it doesn't ever end it would be tough to balance any loot changes without addressing peoples other problems with survive. Considering "peak loot" is round 40+ and getting there is easily 4-5 hours it's fundamentally different from basically every objective event
That's fair, I only know of OSRS's bosses. I can tell you now, GWD is usually not really 'worth' doing there unless you're chasing specific uniques, especially when other things make much more GP/Hr.
I think we're making similar points though. Which is essentially: Each event needs its own unique set of drops that aren't too uncommon, that fill their own little 'niches' and are useful in their own way. That way each event is useful to do for those said items, not just the super rare chance for godlikes.
Yes making uniques for it would be more work, but I'd rather do that than recycle expired items through events. (Most of the time, the hardest part of uniques is well... Making it unique. Coming up with ideas that are fun and useful, and not just a gimmick)
x1
x1
