So recently I've gotten told about/slain for not telling people to ID bodies before I kill them (which is absolutely fine, I can obey things like that and take slays when they're fair), but the thing that really pushed me to make this post is how readily people will tell me to "read the rules" or "read the motd" because I'm newer to the server than they are. However, after reading the rules five times over to make sure I wasn't the one being stupid, I concluded that there is ABSOLUTELY NO written rule about UNID'ed bodies. Okay, sure, whatever, tell people to ID bodies before killing them, but where does this rule begin and where does it end?
For example, what's the difference between watching someone shoot someone and being able to kill them before they check the body (without getting slain) and seeing (referencing the slay earlier that moved me towards this post) two people in a room, leaving the room with the door closed, and coming back to the room three seconds later and finding one dead, killing the other and getting slain?
Sure, you watch them murder someone as compared to thinking about how the second person could have died (c4 was the reason given to me, but there was no explosion/sound/shake), but the premise is the same. What if the person that they shot was a T, and you just didn't see what happened? You can kill the inno and probably not get slain because "you shot someone in front of me." But as soon as you didn't physically see the person shoot, you have no right to suspect that they're a traitor unless you tell them to ID the body and they don't.
The gray area here should be obviously apparent, because in one situation you kill them for creating an UNIDed body, and in the other you kill them for not acknowledging the UNIDed body. I understand that there are situations that you should absolutely not kill someone (walking into a room and passing an UNIDed because it's in the corner by the door) but when there's literally nobody around to kill the other person and you saw them alive five seconds ago, why is there not a reason to kill them or at least a rule to say you can't kill them for that?
It was also brought to light that the aforementioned situation was allegedly a "kos off location" because they were in a room together and clearly I just killed him because he was in the room. While, yes, I killed him without seeing the shots, there would be no reason for him to A. Walk by the UNIDed body B. Not mention the UNIDed body or C. Not ID the UNIDed body. This, I believe, falls under the rule of logical killing. If person A and person B are in a room that is not entered or tampered with in any way, and person B is killed, why is it not logical to kill person A in that situation?
10-01-2016, 12:14 AM (This post was last modified: 10-01-2016, 12:17 AM by Fresh.)
shoot em. 99% of the time people don't SERIOUSLY try to get you slain for this as its a "technicality". On any other server walking from an unidentified body would be grounds to shoot someone, most people will let it go as its OBVIOUSLY traitorous. It is somewhat breaking a rule, but it's a really random rule that really isn't defined very well.
How long do you wait before shooting someone you asked to id a body? Not specified
How many times do you ask someone to id a body? Not specified
do you have to see them deliberately ignore the body or can you just shoot them for leaving the room with the body in it? not specified
really, it's too gray to really try to follow unless you wanna just sus people for doing something extremely traitorous
There are a few unwritten rules, but the basics is use your logic but don't use it to your advantage. There are numerous ways to tell if someone is fishy or just being scrupulous. I guess I could go into detail but it would be pretty obvious in the end.
TTT is a flawed game-mode due to the rules as it is, every server is the same in that regard.
(10-01-2016, 12:20 AM)Terran Wrote: There are a few unwritten rules, but the basics is use your logic but don't use it to your advantage. There are numerous ways to tell if someone is fishy or just being scrupulous. I guess I could go into detail but it would be pretty obvious in the end.
TTT is a flawed game-mode due to the rules as it is, every server is the same in that regard.
I agree, but how come people can use unwritten rules to their advantage if they get killed in a situation like this to get the killer slain?
I'm fully willing to take any slay that's legitimate, but the person I killed in that situation pushed for me to get slain, and so I did.
The situation you described was not RDM in my eyes. You are allowed to use logic. If you go in a room with 1 way in and 1 way out and it's you and 2 others then you leave the room, hear gunshots, and return to a dead body seconds later I would 100% kill the other person that was in the room. 75% of reports where a T is reporting an inno, the T is just salty that they got caught on their T round and died. I advise any staff who read this to keep that in mind when handling reports.
The rule that you have to tell someone to ID a body before shooting them is more for if you suspect that they killed them but don't have any evidence. An example of this would be on the map ttt_canyon. Lets say you walk from the lowest room on the map (the one that has the bridge that connects to the 3 story house.) up to the open area next to the box room. You see a person walking around and an unided body near them. You'd assume that person may have killed the unided body but it is an open area and you came from a room underneath never having previously been up near the box room. This is a good time to ask them to ID the body before you just start guns ablazin. Some people on TTT would use any flaw in the rule to kill someone just because they want to shoot their guns. If we had no rule to ask someone to ID the body plenty of people would have shot and killed the person in the example above with the reason, "he was standing right next to an unided body."
I am only a +member so my comment doesn't hold as much weight as it used to but I'm sure brass would agree with everything I said above. I hope this adds some clarity to the situation for some people and maybe Brass will find a way to add a shorter version of this to the rules. xD
10-01-2016, 08:43 PM (This post was last modified: 10-01-2016, 08:45 PM by Kuro.)
The reason it's not written is because it gets way too specific. If you wrote out EVERY single situation that could happen your entire rule page would be one single rule.
When you're in question about this typically ask a staff member.
The way I see it:
You watch somebody walk up and shoot somebody. They just killed somebody, you kill them.
You hear shooting and walk upstairs and witness a gunfight. Let them fight it out. If the winner of that gunfight does ANYTHING besides ID the body the just killed, you kill them.
You walk into a room and see an unided body, and someone in that room. Ask them to ID it, if they refuse or run away shoot them. If they ID the body you place suspicion on them and be very wary of them.
Being next to an unided body is suspicious and people do legitimately miss them at times. Killing them for being next to a body is KOS off of suspicion.
Hearing shooting and walking in to the room where it happened and killing the person in there is KOS off of a weapon.
Hearing a galil fire and killing Jake is kos off of gun.
Combine those situations, you hear a galil shooting in a room and you walk in to see Jake reloading his galil, next to an unided body.
Some people would say it's logical to kill Jake.
It's really up to staff discretion at that point and I would consider that RDM.
10-01-2016, 08:53 PM (This post was last modified: 10-01-2016, 08:59 PM by Jake1o.)
(10-01-2016, 08:43 PM)Kuro Wrote: Hearing shooting and walking in to the room where it happened and killing the person in there is KOS off of a weapon.
Hearing a galil fire and killing Jake is kos off of gun.
Combine those situations, you hear a galil shooting in a room and you walk in to see Jake reloading his galil, next to an unided body.
Some people would say it's logical to kill Jake.
It's really up to staff discretion at that point and I would consider that RDM.
You contradicted yourself in that part. Hearing shooting and walking in to the room where it happened and killing the person in there is totally fine if that room has only 1 way in/out and an unided body or freshly IDed innocent body in it.
Also it is up to staff at that point because there is no set in stone rule about it. That is the reason 3-4 threads of this exact same situation have popped up in the last few months. I believe that is what DogboyG, and the other people who made threads similiar, hope to achieve. They want a rule clarifying the situation. Not sure how you personally would consider this situation RDM: "you hear a galil shooting in a room and you walk in to see Jake reloading his galil, next to an unided body." If someone didn't start shooting me after that I would be shocked. I would know I had been caught and was fucked at that point and would start unloading on them as soon as they saw me.
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