Rule discussion

[Brassx]

Let's discuss what rules you the community thinks should be changed, removed, added, or addressed/clarified. I believe a thread would be better than a meeting, just because more people can be involved, during a longer period of time. Especially to address something as important as this.

Here's the current ruleset (Huge thanks to Unpoke for re-organizing/re-wording some of the rules)

In-Game Rules

In-Game Rules

» No meta-gaming.
Meta-gaming is any strategy, action or method used in a game going against the game objective. Meta-gaming is most simply defined as helping an innocent as a T or helping a T as an innocent. This includes purposely losing a minigame under any circumstance.

» Do not delay.
Letting the timer run out as a traitor can be considered delaying under most circumstances. Camping a t-room or refusing to attempt to kill innocents are examples of these and will get you slain. You can not delay as an innocent or detective.

» Ghosting is not tolerated.
Being in a third party program with friends is okay as long as you aren't affecting gameplay. This includes giving away player locations or saying who the traitors are. If you are caught ghosting you will be permanently banned.

» No RDMing.
Killing somebody based on suspicion, location, skin, weapon, or any other questionable means are not allowed on this server. You must have proof based on viable evidence. You can use logic as long as it's built on in-game facts, not observations or drawn conclusions. This means you can KOS off of being one of only two people alive, or if only one person is not proven. Attempting to RDM by dealing damage to a player is classified and treated as RDM. Leaving after committing an act of RDM is bannable. Completing any sort of map objective as an innocent that causes traitors to win is treated as mass-RDM as well as meta-gaming. As a traitor, you must warn t-buddies of any quick actions that may endanger them. This includes remote bombs, discombobs, incendiaries, traitor traps, etc. This does NOT include C4's - those have a neat display showing a time limit for them to get away.

» Do not traitor bait/karma bait
Shooting around somebody, attempting to prop-kill, or pushing/discombobulating players in a hazardous area is classified as traitor baiting. Consequences are worse when it's for the reason of hurting somebody's karma. Shooting directly into the sky is not traitor baiting, but anywhere else around a player is. Destroying a health station without permission from the detective is traitor bait and is KOSable. You can only destroy health stations if the detectives are dead OR you have direct permission to do so. Destroying them without that can be considered traitorous.

» Claiming is allowed.
Claiming is allowed ONLY during overtime. You may claim single rooms and they must not be a crucial part of the map. You MUST claim in text chat. Opening doors is KOSable regardless of it being mentioned. You may NOT claim an entire hallway leading to your room or entire ladders.

» No Harassment.
Following someone every round just because you don't like them is annoying and not allowed. If someone is following you and you don't want them to be, you may use the 3 warning rule. The 3 warning rule is when you type in chat or say aloud, "Stop following me, warning 1." You must wait 5 seconds and then say, "Stop following me, warning 2." 5 more seconds and then, "Stop following me, final warning!" After 5 more seconds if that person is still following you, you are allowed to kill them. The 3 warning rule can also be used for door blocking, prop blocking or anything else that may restrict your movement.

» Detectives have no authority.
Detectives cannot force anybody to test or do anything. Detectives cannot claim until overtime either. Only detectives can force you to drop a body to find DNA/evidence on.

» Do not kill AFKs.
Our AFK system or a staff member will take care of that. If you believe someone is farming please inform staff.


» No Toxicity in RDM Reports.
Being toxic in a RDM report (insulting the other player, or anything like that), will usually end up in the report being closed, or ruled in favor of the other party. If both parties are toxic, both may be punished. (via slays, kicks, or bans)

» Do not spam Doors, buttons, or anything else that can disrupt the flow of gameplay.
Blocking off areas of the map, or trapping people somewhere by spamming doors, buttons, or anything of the like is not allowed, and is slayable.

General Rules

General Rules

» No exploiting/hacking.
Using exploits for personal gain(such as an exploit to do an event and not receive a cooldown), or to beat events(getting to a place where NPC's cant hit/reach you) is a perma-ban. Getting into unreachable areas is not allowed. Any area that allows you to see through walls is an exploit. Door blocking classifies as exploiting. No hacking is self-explanatory. If you believe somebody is hacking/exploiting, contact a staff member.

» No advertising.
You may not advertise in your name, text chat, or mic chat. This includes posting any sort of link in chat whether its yours or not.

» Show respect.
Racism, arguing, sexism, or any other sort of disrespect is never allowed. Names should not include curse words, terms that affect gameplay or any other inappropriate content.

» No spamming.
Consistent talking, making comprehensible noises into your microphone or singing are examples of mic-spam. Chat spamming is not allowed either.

» Server/Player threats are not tolerated.
Threatening to hack, DDOS, crash, or put the server or a player at risk in any way is an INSTANT permanent ban. This includes doxxing.

» Make your name pronounceable.
Do not use unrecognizable characters. It has to be pronounceable to all players.

» Do not argue with staff.
Staff are chosen because they're believed to have an understanding of rules and are trusted. If you believe they're doing something wrong, make a player complaint. Arguing in game with them just causes more problems, drama, and is not the way to handle it.

Inventory Rules

Inventory Rules

» Only use provided trading methods.
Third-party trading is NOT allowed. Do not attempt to trade any sort of non-tradeable items. This includes using a non-tradeable item and giving the result of it to the buyer.

» No scamming/sharking.
Trying to persuade someone a trade is fair when it's not, trying to take advantage of newcomers, or anything else along these lines are not allowed.

» No farming.
This means going AFK to collect end of round drops or lengthen your time played on the servers. This also forbids use of click-bots or using exploits to avoid cooldowns.

Credit to Jake1o for the original post and Unpoke for organizing it.

So what rules do you guys think should be addressed, added, removed, changed, etc?

If you have a suggestion, feel free to setup a strawpoll for it to make things a bit easier.

[2bias]

I have a few ones to start with:

1) Is holding out a knife T baiting even if you call it out in chat?
2) Are only detectives allowed to ask people to put bodies down, or can anybody?(if they have DNA on them, and they are not trying to dispose of it)?
3) If someone kills another person for entering their claim, are you allowed to kill that person?
4) Do you have to give 3 warnings for door spamming, or can you only give one?
5) This one applies to what the answer to 4 is, is spamming an elevator up and down(Like the one on digdown) considered door spamming or something else, and can you be killed for it?

[Kcat]

Person A: *gets hit by person B with a ninjato* *kills person B*
Person C: *knowing that person B hit person A* "Oh but you killed an inno so I can kill you!!"

We need to get rdm trains to stop.

[EmperorWhale]

(07-14-2017, 01:56 PM)tobiasxz Wrote:  I have a few ones to start with:

1) Is holding out a knife T baiting even if you call it out in chat?
2) Are only detectives allowed to ask people to put bodies down, or can anybody?(if they have DNA on them, and they are not trying to dispose of it)?
3) If someone kills another person for entering their claim, are you allowed to kill that person?
4) Do you have to give 3 warnings for door spamming, or can you only give one?
5) This one applies to what the answer to 4 is, is spamming an elevator up and down(Like the one on digdown) considered door spamming or something else, and can you be killed for it?

1. Stumped me, but I still want it to be required to say it in text chat to prevent confusion when someone gets slain for killing someone holding out a knife or something. Not everyone hears it in voice and at least text will show proof. Honestly though there's no reason to hold out certain T weapons so who knows. I never really thought of it as a problem that much.

2. I'd prefer it only dets, sometimes it's fun to mess with bodies and people might take it overboard with telling people to drop a body for DNA and use it as an excuse to kill.

3. No

4. Three

5. I don't really know what the elevator on digdown is like but if it denies access to certain parts of the map and people can't get on said elevator or whatever, then yes it is door spamming.

[Unpoke]

Is prop surfing "for fun" as in not to get to spots but just up in the air fair game?
What's the appropriate punishment for it?
Is it KOSable?

How far can racism/antisemitism go unpunished? People often go extremely far without saying the "n" word which currently obviously isn't allowed, how far can that go? The boundaries are definitely pushed.
(I don't think with an 'a' at the end should be allowed either.)
((also autism/retard jokes))

[Kuro]

(07-14-2017, 03:06 PM)EmperorWhale Wrote:  1. Stumped me, but I still want it to be required to say it in text chat to prevent confusion when someone gets slain for killing someone holding out a knife or something. Not everyone hears it in voice and at least text will show proof. Honestly though there's no reason to hold out certain T weapons so who knows. I never really thought of it as a problem that much.

2. I'd prefer it only dets, sometimes it's fun to mess with bodies and people might take it overboard with telling people to drop a body for DNA and use it as an excuse to kill.

3. No

4. Three

5. I don't really know what the elevator on digdown is like but if it denies access to certain parts of the map and people can't get on said elevator or whatever, then yes it is door spamming.

I think that this thread is more for Brass to clarify things for the community and staff rather than us trying to answer the questions.



I feel like a lot of people still go by their own rules and still do from the time I was staff.
Understandably a lot of people have to make quick decisions on the spot as staff, but I feel like what isn't known is made up for with experience or knowledge of the rules which differs from person to person.

Since it differs so much and people have their own opinions and logical processes, at what point does it become logical to kos somebody? I'm asking everyone for their opinion by the way. Based on the thing with Wind and how it was justified if I was a staff member I would have slain him no doubt if up to me, because I don't think logically in that situation anyone could have known for certain.

[Angry_Reaper]

(07-14-2017, 03:54 PM)Kuro Wrote:  

(07-14-2017, 03:06 PM)EmperorWhale Wrote:  1. Stumped me, but I still want it to be required to say it in text chat to prevent confusion when someone gets slain for killing someone holding out a knife or something. Not everyone hears it in voice and at least text will show proof. Honestly though there's no reason to hold out certain T weapons so who knows. I never really thought of it as a problem that much.

2. I'd prefer it only dets, sometimes it's fun to mess with bodies and people might take it overboard with telling people to drop a body for DNA and use it as an excuse to kill.

3. No

4. Three

5. I don't really know what the elevator on digdown is like but if it denies access to certain parts of the map and people can't get on said elevator or whatever, then yes it is door spamming.

I think that this thread is more for Brass to clarify things for the community and staff rather than us trying to answer the questions.



I feel like a lot of people still go by their own rules and still do from the time I was staff.
Understandably a lot of people have to make quick decisions on the spot as staff, but I feel like what isn't known is made up for with experience or knowledge of the rules which differs from person to person.

Since it differs so much and people have their own opinions and logical processes, at what point does it become logical to kos somebody? I'm asking everyone for their opinion by the way. Based on the thing with Wind and how it was justified if I was a staff member I would have slain him no doubt if up to me, because I don't think logically in that situation anyone could have known for certain.

he had plenty of evidence to kill, and in the end he was correct, so i do not think he should be slain, he followed a trail of evidence, and found its end. But if the person he killed was inno, then yes, slay him. Traitors are meant to be stealthy, not kill someone and run out making it extremely obvious they are a traitor. Innos are meant to survive and kill the traitors. If the inno gets enough reasonable evidence, then they should be allowed to kill. We should all also take it down a notch when we get killed. Ive had plenty of times were i killed off completely reasonable logic, but couldnt say anything, due to people screaming at me you did this off skin or you had no proof at all. when really i never kosed off skin, and i had all the evidence from their past actions. these things that have happened had also happened with a few staff, and they would just keep arguing and not let me get my point across. But anyway, at what point is logical killing not allowed? and i cant claim entire ladders, what about sundays street tower. I tend to claim the top of it and say getting on ladder is kos. is that ok?

[Unpoke]

(07-14-2017, 04:07 PM)Angry_Reaper Wrote:  

(07-14-2017, 03:54 PM)Kuro Wrote:  

(07-14-2017, 03:06 PM)EmperorWhale Wrote:  whales response

kurbo's response

He had plenty of evidence to kill and turned out being correct. He followed a trail of evidence, and found its end. If the person he killed was inno, then yes, slay him.
Traitors are meant to be stealthy, not kill someone and run out making it extremely obvious they are a traitor. Innos are meant to survive and kill the traitors. If the inno gets enough reasonable evidence, then they should be allowed to kill.
We should all also take it down a notch when we get killed. I've had plenty of times where I killed off completely reasonable logic but couldn't say anything due to people screaming at me with "You did this off skin," or "You had no proof at all," when really I never KOS'd off skin and I had all the evidence from their past actions.
These things that have happened had also happened with a few staff, and they would just keep arguing and not let me get my point across.

But anyway, at what point is logical killing not allowed? I cant claim entire ladders, what about Sunday Street's tower. I tend to claim the top of it and say getting on ladder is KOSable. Is that okay?

The rule on logic will hopefully be cleared up here. All arguments for it have already been made, so we'll see.
As for the rule on ladders, you can claim the entry-way even if it's attached to the ladder, so if someone's prairie-dogging in, you can kill them for it. Claiming an entire ladder though would be stupid though since you can't really strafe around ladders and it'd be suuuper campy since it's a straight shot down and usually results in the easiest headshot of your life.

[wind]

So I believe two big issues that need to be addressed in the rules is do we want to change the current rule set to

1. Allow for innocents to use logic to take out a traitor, i believe many players dont play because they dont think its fun, and a lot of the new players join the server using logic and then they get told they have to play mindless and cant kill someone for logic. For instance there was actually a member on a server of just level 1 - 11's yesterday that i joined and he was telling them "If you dont see me shoot you cant kill me, even if we are alone in a closed room and im behind you if i shoot you in the head and you didnt see me do it you cant kill me for it" So yes players on our server actually do believe this is how the rule works.

2. A rule for staff member that requires them to be active, now yes ik i have discussed this with brass and we agreed it would feel like a job but i dont think asking staff members to be on an hour for a week would be bad (this being for moderators and admins) and if they cant be on or are just not feeling like playing make an away post and their rank will be secure. As for plus members as i view them as the operators of this community i believe that if they are inactive for 4+ months they should be dropped back down to member.

for right now those are the 2 i can think of, more probably will come to mind

[Unpoke]

Are real world politics allowed in the server and on the forums?