New rules discussions(v3?)

[Brassx]

(01-23-2019, 03:57 PM)Unpoke Wrote:  

(01-23-2019, 06:42 AM)Brassx Wrote:  

• Committing traitorous acts makes you kosable (Obvious right?)
  Traitorous acts could include(but not limited to):
  • Walking through/BLATANTLY avoiding bear traps.
  • Blatantly fleeing the scene of an UNID'd body, or ignoring unid'd bodies. For instance, if someone is fleeing a room and you see a body in there, but saw no call outs between the two, you should be safe to kill said person. It's on them for not calling out the other person if they happened to be Innocent. If they did call it out and you missed it and kill them, you could take a slay. (Decided at staff discretion if reported)
  • Shooting at or near someone. This does Not include OBVIOUSLY shooting at a wall or consensual testing of weapons by shooting in legs.
  • Exploding explosive barrels near someone.
  • Planting C4 or remote bombs.
  • Having T weapons without calling our you have one from a dead traitor. Even using one from a dead traitor is a risk you have to take as an innocent.
  • Damaging or killing others, UNLESS for self-defense. However, it's a little hard to prove if self defense. Any thoughts?
    

A lot of these are already enforced (or should be). The only ones that aren't are the bear traps and the "BLATANTLY" fleeing the scene of an unid'd body to that level of vagueness. It's been enforced as "if there's no doubt that person saw the body, you can KOS them." I'm worried by the word blatant when it comes to that because people already kill for just about anything, and they will stretch that word as far as they can, especially if you're saying they don't even have to directly be seen in the same room here. With bear traps, as an innocent I've walked over plenty without ever having any clue they're there. They're invisible meant not to be seen, and they're buggy so not every innocent trips them off. It would kind've suck to be killed for that.

(01-23-2019, 06:42 AM)Brassx Wrote:  Another thing is logical rules:

• Reasonable* logic should be allowed, that is, figuring out who a T is without directly seeing the actions they comitted. To be decided on a per-case basis. This includes but is not limited to:
  • Using information on bodies or other situations(to be expanded on later) to form a conclusion beyond a reasonable doubt, that a person is a T.
    
    This is hard to pinpoint as it can be very situational and vary VASTLY depending on the situation and context, but for example, if you ID a body and it shows they died only a few seconds ago, but you saw someone fleeing the scene with the same weapon(with no other ways to escape), just before you found/saw the body. You should be able to piece together and rightfully KOS the person fleeing the scene. But be prepared to take punishment if wrong.
    
    Or if it says who they are last with, with 0 call outs of any kind, and you saw the same person fleeing the scene. That should be allowed, do any of you agree?
  • Hearing a battle right around a corner or inside a room next to you, upon entering the room and seeing dead bodies with no call outs, you should be able to assume the person left standing is a T, and have no need to give any warning before killing them. Simply because there were no call outs, that's their fault if they were innocent, and could fall under "confusion caused by T" in the end. (Kill from the grave!)
    
    If you are reported for killing someone and you were correct, you must state very clearly in the report response - your entire logical process. Any holes in your story could/would most likely lead to you being slain. But if its a plausible explanation and the logs add up reasonably to what you've said, the report should most likely be settled with no slay.
  • More to be added as we discuss.
    

*Reasonable logic to be determined on a per-case basis based on the discretion of the staff online

The first one (seeing a body very recently killed and a person fleeing from the body) is something I do support and has already been used, I've let it slide when I saw it because it makes it real obvious, but I'm glad it's in writing now. I don't really support the last person with because it's easy enough to just wear a disguiser, combined with our teleporting guns 'n' stuff somebody could just be looking at the wrong person and their round gets fucked for it. There's no way for staff to look at the information left on a body either, so we have to be careful with that kind've stuff, right now there's zero way to enforce that in our current report system. I guess we can kind've infer a little bit that it might be possible from the death scene, but that's not worth it at that point. If we get more specific damage logs and report system, that could maybe work. I do agree with the "battle around the corner" one, although I think it'll bring quite a few RDMs with people shooting before they read callouts. Those people will just have to be slain I guess, it would make the game a little less frustrating for innos.

Fair. But to be clear, I meant Last person with wouldn't be used alone, but maybe with a number of other factors. Time of death, weapon killed with, if you saw said person coming from that area legit like 2 seconds after the death time of the body, and didn't see ANY call outs or hear/see anything (in chat) related to a fight. That is very suspicious. If they were at the scene of the crime and didn't say anything about what happened, that should maybe be enough to kill them. It should be on said person for NOT saying anything about it, and they should have no rights to report anyone for killing them unless they clearly stated what happened and said person missed. It can fall under 'confusion from T's' if they were innocent. Know what I mean? Now if the person says what happened, they shouldn't be killed, or if you do kill them anyways you can take a slay.

That's the thing with logical rules, you can't really prove any of them with logs. It would have to be up to our staff to decide if the logic someone used is ok (if reported). There barely used to even be a damage logs system back in the day and logical rules were allowed. It's really up to staff. People can lie yes, which is partially why the rules have evolved to the way they are now, but it will be up to our staff members to decide if they feel the persons logic is plausible or a lie based on both sides of the report, this of course makes them have to ask a few more questions.

I should also add to the list, carrying unid'd bodies around, or clearly trying to hide/get rid of bodies should be under "Traitorous Acts".


It just sucks that TTT basically turned into a "I literally can't do anything unless someone is KOS'd or directly shoots me and I see their name" instead of a hectic, tense, panic-filled gamemode that it used to be. It's a big reason why T's don't use even half of the T weapons. They don't need to because they can get away with so much shit they shouldn't be able to.