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Let's talk about challenges and daily quests. - Printable Version

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Let's talk about challenges and daily quests. - Sole Soul of Sol - 01-12-2019

Problem:

So, since coming back to the server recently, the single biggest difference I noticed from when I played about a year ago is how different traitors play. It seems rather than try to actually win, traitors will 90% of the time prioritize getting kills for their quests. I mean, sure they'll get kills, but spraying into a crowd of 4 people to get that final kill for your quest doesn't seem to help. There's a 1:4 Inno/T ratio, and if a Traitor is only killing 2 people consistently to get their quest done, they're hindering their T buddies.

Possible Solutions:

-Make challenges/daily quests not kill based.
-Make challenges/daily quests more focuses on winning the round for your team, whether Inno or Traitor.
-Make challenges/daily quests harder to complete if players are only going for that one or two kill a round.

I'd like to say that this problem probably isn't as easy to fix as just "change the challenges", but I was hoping to shine some light on it so attention was brought to it.

Discuss! ^-^


RE: Let's talk about challenges and daily quests. - Brassx - 01-12-2019

(01-12-2019, 06:14 AM)Razzation Wrote:  Problem:

So, since coming back to the server recently, the single biggest difference I noticed from when I played about a year ago is how different traitors play. It seems rather than try to actually win, traitors will 90% of the time prioritize getting kills for their quests. I mean, sure they'll get kills, but spraying into a crowd of 4 people to get that final kill for your quest doesn't seem to help. There's a 1:4 Inno/T ratio, and if a Traitor is only killing 2 people consistently to get their quest done, they're hindering their T buddies.

Possible Solutions:

-Make challenges/daily quests not kill based.
-Make challenges/daily quests more focuses on winning the round for your team, whether Inno or Traitor.
-Make challenges/daily quests harder to complete if players are only going for that one or two kill a round.

I'd like to say that this problem probably isn't as easy to fix as just "change the challenges", but I was hoping to shine some light on it so attention was brought to it.

Discuss! ^-^

This would only make the server more 'sweaty' and 'tryhard' which is something people really don't like already.


RE: Let's talk about challenges and daily quests. - Dreadark - 01-12-2019

(01-12-2019, 06:17 AM)Brassx Wrote:  
(01-12-2019, 06:14 AM)Razzation Wrote:  Problem:

So, since coming back to the server recently, the single biggest difference I noticed from when I played about a year ago is how different traitors play. It seems rather than try to actually win, traitors will 90% of the time prioritize getting kills for their quests. I mean, sure they'll get kills, but  spraying into a crowd of 4 people to get that final kill for your quest doesn't seem to help. There's a 1:4 Inno/T ratio, and if a Traitor is only killing 2 people consistently to get their quest done, they're hindering their T buddies.

Possible Solutions:

-Make challenges/daily quests not kill based.
-Make challenges/daily quests more focuses on winning the round for your team, whether Inno or Traitor.
-Make challenges/daily quests harder to complete if players are only going for that one or two kill a round.

I'd like to say that this problem probably isn't as easy to fix as just "change the challenges", but I was hoping to shine some light on it so attention was brought to it.

Discuss! ^-^

This would only make the server more 'sweaty' and 'tryhard' which is something people really don't like already.

I'd say having challenges solely based on kills causes people to be more tryhard than if they had to work together to win rounds. I don't see anything wrong with adding challenges for winning say a certain amount of traitor rounds.


RE: Let's talk about challenges and daily quests. - Beebee1303 - 01-12-2019

(01-12-2019, 06:35 AM)Dreadark Wrote:  I'd say having challenges solely based on kills causes people to be more tryhard than if they had to work together to win rounds. I don't see anything wrong with adding challenges for winning say a certain amount of traitor rounds.

100%

Folks going for kills will be hair-trigger bastards that will kill for ANY reason at all. But if it is winning as a team, then folks wouldn't get salty for kill steals nor would they be looking for excuses to kill folks.


RE: Let's talk about challenges and daily quests. - Brassx - 01-12-2019

I don't think you guys are actually thinking about this. Instead of player vs player, it becomes TEAM VS TEAM. Innocents vs traitors(in terms of salt levels).You're looking at the aspect that people will try to work together, but not about what happens when you lose, or how the other team will feel. Traitors go try hard and win, and innocents can't progress at all? SALT. Innocents go super try hard and camp and kill T's and T's can't progress? SALT. We've seen this before on boss rounds when the boss tries to win for their extra loot, people get salty and call them sweaty.

Also, anything that relies on teammates too much to progress promotes a much more toxic/try hard environment, especially PvP where something is actually on the line for wins/losses. Rather than just relying on yourself, being happy with getting a kill or two. So say T's lose the round. Who do they blame then? Their 'awful teammates' for throwing? Someone who didn't help as much? Afk's? Someone who got 0 kills?? Sure as hell wont blame themselves. Look at what happens in lyrus/santa fights, and thats vs an AI. People get salty at last place, accuse them of leeching. The salt levels would be much higher because they get 0 progress at all, even if they got some kills. If someone gets 6 kills, and the other T buddy is a new player, gets 0 kills and loses the round, do you really think people are just going to be ok with that? Ok with the fact their challenge scroll gained 0 progress? Hell no.

We don't need more people bitching about 'leeches'.

If you needed wins everyone would equip their best, most try-hard weapons, not play around/goof off, and would get even saltier when they lose a round.

I don't know your definition of tryhard, but that's as try hard as it gets. People already get meme'd for using heroic galils or godlikes, this would only increase that. Unless its to 'get wins with certain weapon'. But then it circles all the way back to relying way too much on teammates.
Quote:Folks going for kills will be hair-trigger bastards that will kill for ANY reason at all. But if it is winning as a team, then folks wouldn't get salty for kill steals nor would they be looking for excuses to kill folks.

No. It would be the same, if not worse. You need kills to win the round, making kills way more important because to get ANY progress there has to be multiple kills. Challenge based kills need rightful kills to progress, it's a similar thing as wins except wins will makes it much easier for innocents to leech and progress, and much harder for T's to.


Not to mention this would be super easy to farm with only 6 people online, intentionally or not.


RE: Let's talk about challenges and daily quests. - Dreadark - 01-12-2019

Eh. I don't really see it like that. I see the reasoning but I find people having the main goal of getting kills more annoying than that in my opinion. I don't think there'd be such a big problem if they were just mixed in with the kill challenges. TTT has become more who can get the most kills instead of who can win, but maybe it was always like that.
I seriously don't think people will get that much more tryhard from adding round wins to challenge scrolls. I think it'll encourage people to use different techniques and do anything they can to win instead of just using one gun. Yeah more people would use cancer guns, but it would be manageable.
People get pretty salty from kill challenges too in my experience.  People killsteal, or hit a t buddy in crossfire and "ruin" their round and potential for more kills and then they get salty.

How I see it, the downsides to only having kill challenges are:
-kill steals
-lack of using teamwork
-lack of use of different traitor/det items
-lack of interesting plays/unpredictableness of the game

Yet if we added in traitor round wins or det round wins, I think the game could become a little more interesting and more fun. I like challenges but I feel like rolling my eyes at the repetition in them. Get 30 kills with this gun. Get 42 kills with this specific tier. I lose some of the motivation to do challenges just because I know exactly what to expect from the steps. Some more variety would be nice and I feel like this could be a start.

And on the issue of farming, I don't think it would be an issue if you just didn't have innocent round wins as a possible step, only traitor round wins. Then even if there were only 6 people on, it would be 5v1.

But either way, I think a good idea could be to add them, see how the community responds, and then if necessary remove them.

Also, I think some players are toxic, but I don't think the playerbase is truly THAT toxic, where that many people would cause problems for losing rounds. I think when most people are calling others "leeches" in events, its mostly jokes.

I'd also like to see some different variation in challenge scrolls such as how quests are, but then that might make quests completely obsolete, i don't know.


RE: Let's talk about challenges and daily quests. - Brassx - 01-12-2019

I was speaking strictly if kill challenges were replaced by wins. I also don't think it will hurt mixing them in WITH kill challenges, but if every kill challenge was replace with wins instead of kills, entire teams/sides would be affected(also easier to grief). It would be much worse than kill challenges. Having it only affect T rounds would be a better solution, but even then it has many of the same problems you brought up about kill challenges.

Kill stealing is way more situational than the last T losing the round, and your challenge scroll progression completely relies on that.

Also some people may have been joking, but there's actually a quite a few that aren't joking about leeches. People actually get upset about it, even going so far as to post in discord "When can we ban people for this (screenshot of post-fight scoreboard showing last place)"

But yeah I'm for wins being added to the pool of challenges.


RE: Let's talk about challenges and daily quests. - Nyteblob Fishman - 01-12-2019

Only one way to solve it for good. Move chal scrolls to realms. Boom problem solved, FRG's player situation solved, brass's slowly dying stream of $$$$$ solved. Thank me l8r muchachos